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First Response

Page history last edited by toma 12 years, 6 months ago

First Response

 

 

Gorgias' Encomium to Helen is more of a defense than a tribute; however, in defending Helen's actions from her accusers, Gorgias also presents a compelling argument in support of the power of words, emotions, and arguments as suasive devices. In the fictionalized encounter between Socrates and Gorgias in Plato's Gorgias, this suasive power of rhetoric is pitted against philosophy and the search for truth. Taken together these writings pose some serious questions about the nature of truth and the uses and abuses of persuasion. In the space below, respond to these tensions in the assigned writings (in addition feel free to reply to other's responses as well - these writings will structure our class discussion on Tuesday).

 

Responses should be a minimum of 250 words. Paste your response into the wiki comment box below. Your best bet is to compose the response in a word processing file (Microsoft Word, etc.) and then paste it into the comment box when you're done. Be sure to be logged in to the wiki (using your username and password) when making a comment so we know whose comment it is. Posts must be added before 9 AM on Tuesday, September 6.

 

By the way: if your comment runs a little long, forget the comment feature and just add it to the wiki page itself... as I've just done with Nour's response:

 

Nour Ghamrawi's response:

After reading the two texts it became clear that “Rhetoric” was the issue at hand. Reading a Wiki article about enthymeme explained that it was a syllogism that was missing part of the argument, major or minor premise. In the article it stated that it is usually used with rhetoric and is sometimes called a rhetorical syllogism. While reading Gorgia’s Encomium to Helen it was obvious that in the article Gorgia was trying to defend Helen. It began by introducing Helen as a good looking lady, where many men came around to look at her beauty then it said “If one must place blame and fate on a god, one must free Helen from disgrace”. Gorgia also claimed that speech was a powerful lord, deception of opinion using speech is an art of witchcraft and magic and then Helen is not in just. The second article, Plato’s Gorgias was a conversation in which the goal was to identify the purpose and define the meaning of what rhetoric is. Gorgias claimed that it was an art and it is related to discourse, however the defense claimed that many things are art and a discourse, so what made rhetoric so different? Gorgias responded by saying that it was an art and discourse that acts through the medium of words. I believe that persuasion is a huge part of our lives and we go through it every day without even realizing it. Some people are much better at it than others, every decision is affected by persuasion. Even when learning according to Gorgia you are getting persuaded to believe what your teacher says. I think that yes rhetoric should be used like any other competitive art, however like Gorgia said it shouldn’t be abused. I strongly believe you shouldn't use it to persuade people that the guilty are innocent and the innocent are guilty. However rhetoric can be useful for things such as preventing the use of drugs, wars, and many other things that society as a whole agrees on being a negative aspect of life. In conclusion rhetoric is a great tool, but should not be used carelessly.

 

Dillon Fitzgerald's response:

 

Many people are unclear on the meaning of rhetoric, but is there truly one meaning? Is it an art form, or just a distraction from what is really going on? Rhetoric is closely defined as the use of speech to throw one off, and persuade an audience into believing anything you would like. Using wit and fancy words will help keep the audience listening as well as make it sound like you know what your talking about.

            In the reading, Gorgias, Socrates is trying to pinpoint exactly what rhetoric is, using a serious of well thought out questions. At first, Gorgias states that rhetoric is an art form like any other. Only the rhetorician’s toolbox consists of only their mind, and their spoken words. With further questioning, Gorgias eventually agrees that rhetoric is not actually an art so much as an experience. This makes sense because an art will cover one specific area of skill, where one would be knowledgeable in that area. A rhetorician on the other hand would seem knowledgeable on everything, but really he doesn’t need to know what he is talking about, as long as he has the audience locked in. Further explaining this is when Socrates said, “An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art.” One would agree, that an artist, say a musician will be a master of this art because they have devoted so much time into the matter. But Gorgias states that a rhetorician could persuade a musician to believe whatever the rhetorician was saying, even if the subject matter was music. This idea does not make sense to a lot of people. It is not so much about being right, as it is to persuade the audience. What they are being persuaded to believe does not have to be true at all. This is why it is such a dangerous skill, and Gorgias said that this skill must be used properly.

            The use of rhetoric is demonstrated in the reading Encomium to Helen. The main idea of this story is that Helen is blamed for running of with a man that is the enemy, and sleeping with him. But Gorgias defends Helen in court by using rhetoric, and this is where he believes rhetoric should be utilized. Perhaps this barbarian had taken Helen by force, what is a maiden to do against a trained warrior. Or perhaps this man charmed Helen, using the tool of rhetoric himself. With compliments here and there, and smooth talking, one could easily fall for the persuasion. Speech is a powerful tool when used properly, could you really blame Helen for this incident? But if you follow this reading, Encomium to Helen closely, you see rhetoric in action. Gorgias starts speaking about Helen, and the background info of what was going on at this time. A couple of paragraphs later with the use of a broad spectrum of vocabulary and some very intelligent comparisons you are at a totally different place then you started. Much of this reading is hard to understand, and it would seem as though it jumped around a lot in a somewhat random fashion. But because it was very well written, and the ideas that the writer wanted to come across were drilled in your mind, persuasion takes over, and it is easy to believe every last bit of it.

 

Hannah Livernois' Response:

Tensions are added into literature to keep the reader's interested. Without them, the readers
would feel no purpose to carry on in the piece. Also, tension is used to persuade the reader to
continue reading. For example, many of us would never read a book
with no plot and for short stories, tributes, and plays, tension is one of the main
parts for a successful one. In Gorgias' Encomium to Helen, it is clear that although one
can have a successful civilization but it comes at a cost. Human nature is the greatest
downfall of man as our animal instints cloud our jugdement. Even those of higher stature
have fallen to the dreaded human instincts. Zeus, the ruler of all Gods, had crumbled to
the unfortunate quality of the human race. Another quality that the human race falls to
is equality. In Gorgias' Encomium of Helen, Helen has to overcome many obstacles because
of the simple fact she is a woman. She was brutally punished for having an opinion and following
it, as opposed to one expressed by a man. But the main question of the piece is whether Helen
was unfaithful out of Love or was she persauded? As the idiom goes: "Love makes people do crazy things". Is
it safe to assume that love persauded Helen to act and feel this way? Is it possible to
have emotions control your thoughts? However, in Plato's Gorgias, Gorgias and Socrates
debate over the fact that words alone do not persuade people, it is an art. A good persuader
knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and what to do to convince his audience of his thoughts
and belief systems. This art form is only gathered by experience. In other words, you need to
to be persuaded to understand the art of persausion. From this debate, they gather that
once you are persuaded then you gain emotions. You feel accomplished for persuading individuals
as opposed to using emotions as the basis of the persuasion. In comparsion of the two pieces,
Helen was driven out of emotions and Gorgias and Socrates felt that emotions came later. But, going back to
human nature, the ability to persuade comes from the emotions, whether you want something, or
you are trying to protect someone, persuasion is an emotion driven art form.

 


Blue, Toma 

 

 

In the two sections I found some things to be very interesting. Gorgias's Encomium to Helen and Plato's Gorgias were a different type of literature to read and at first I didn’t understand. In Gorgias Encomium to Helen, Helen is a woman who’s been blamed for causing the war. I was kind of confused on why she’d be charged and I know that Gorgias wanted to make an argument to prove her innocence. Although in Plato’s Gorgias he ends up showing people that he can’t be trusted by anyone and that he only knows how to pursue others into believing what he says. The term rhetoric at first stunned me because I’ve never really used that term before. So I looked it up it up to understand the true meaning. The term is basically used to communicate effectively and persuasively, so this shows that someone is trying to prove their point in a creative way. Its like the ability to persuade people in this theme is to use alot of feeling and expression and they take that in order to manipulate others in believing what they are trying to prove.

Comments (19)

sasha said

at 2:42 pm on Sep 4, 2011

In Gorgias’ Encomium of Helen, he states that blaming someone who is innocent is ignorant. His goal in his speech is free Helen of the wrongful accusations that have plagued her name. Helen is a woman accused of running off with a man from Troy, and therefore betraying her homeland. Daughter of Zeus, Helen was known for her beauty, which wooed men of great and poor status alike. Gorgias goes on to say that the blame should be placed on the man who took her away, whether by force or by luring. According to Gorgias, if she was taken by force, then it would be normal to blame her captor, but even if she was taken by luring (sweet talk), it is still not her fault because speech is very powerful, and it is easy to deceive someone with false promises, and compliments. Therefore Helen cannot be blamed because she was either taken by force, or deceitful speech, which would be tempting to any human.
In Plato’s Gorgias, Socrates is asking Gorgias, why rhetoric is the most powerful art form.Socrates compares rhetoric with music, medicine, gymnastics, weaving, and arithmetic, which are treatments to some sort of discourse. According to Gorgias, all other art have to do with some sort of external action, whereas rhetoric takes effect through discourse. He goes on to say rhetoric is used to persuade judges, senators, and citizens. A rhetoric has the power to persuade, which makes all other arts succumb under it.

perrinatisha said

at 4:39 pm on Sep 4, 2011

In Gorgias' Encomium of Helen, he tries to defend Helen and take down the shame that is tied to her name. He explains that we should praise those who deserve to be praised and blame those who are at fault. He goes on to say that in life we blame those who have done no wrong, and we show love to others who are at fault. He describes Helen as a beautiful woman with a godlike body. He says that this is what we did to Helen. We accused her of being attracted to the prince and that she wasn’t kidnapped. He explains speech as something that stops fear and grief and creates joy and pity. Speech persuades and at times it can be dangerous. The prince persuaded Helen. She was afraid and didn’t know what to do. Fear extinguishes and excludes thoughts as Gorgias said. She did whatever she was told because she was abused by persuasion. I mean come on! How many times do we use speech to persuade a cop to bail us out of a ticket? If a man came and pointed a gun to your head and told you to get out of your car, you would…because of fear.
In Plato’s Gorgias, the conversation between Socrates and Gorgias, Gorgias describes himself as a rhetorician. Socrates asks what is rhetoric? Gorgias explains that it is a discourse. They go on to speak about the different arts that all involve discourse and Gorgias says that rhetoric is different because it persuades. It is the art of persuasion in the courts and other assemblies, it persuades others about just and unjust topics. Socrates explains that rhetoric is simply an experience because it cannot explain or give a reason for its persuasion and anything irrational is not an art. If you are able to speak than you are able to persuade. If you are a math teacher then you are able to persuade your students that 2 + 2 = 4. If you are an English teacher you are able to persuade others that a period belongs here. These are the truths of persuasion while Helen’s was an abuse of persuasion.

Farah Sheikh said

at 7:33 pm on Sep 4, 2011

In both readings Gorgias’ Encomium of Helen and In Plato’s Grogoia’s, speech plays an important role of persuasion and taking sides. As it has been said by the author of Gorgias’ speech is very powerful and the choices of words used against Helen had persuaded her to make the decision of leaving her hometown. Then he describes on as Helen should not be blamed because it was not her fault. Continuing to defend Helen he describes the situation of speech, the dangers and misuses it held against Helen. Helen was the daughter of Zeus who was persuaded to leave her hometown and leaving with Troy. The topic of force was later brought upon in the text, saying, if Helen was being forced to go then it would be her fault but Helen had the emotional fear playing along with Troy persuading her and misusing the power of speech to leave her hometown.
The second text read is In Plato’s Gorgias. This text also describes the power of persuading others. It is said by Gorgias if you can speak you can persuade. Gorgias tells Socrates he is a rhetorician, describing himself to have the power to persuade others with little or no evidence. The conversation of arts is brought up between the two. Gorgias has said the knowledge of arts requires external usage more than speech, he also mentioned that rhetoric treats of discourse. Both texts show readers how much the power of speech and the power of persuasion has. Leading to defend Helen and labeling Gorgias as rhetorician.

marielle frattaroli said

at 10:23 pm on Sep 4, 2011

In the two texts, Gorgias’ Encomium of Helen, as well as Plato’s Gorgias, speech, or “rhetoric” plays the main role. Gorgias great skill of rhetoric establishes as to why Helen should not be blamed for what she did. He describes the power of speech could have been misused by Troy to persuade Helen to leave and betray her homeland. He also explains that she could have left for true love, which would not be a sin. Gorgias defends Helen in many ways in his speech, but these are just a few. All of his arguments work towards the same result: persuading her accusers that she is innocent of the charges.
In Plato’s Gorgias, Socrates asks Gorgias what rhetoric is, which he later describes to the most basic definition to be the art of persuasion. Other subjects like math and science come into the picture and Gorgias basically tells Socrates that if you are teaching it, you are persuading it, even if the material isn’t true.
With that said how is it possible to know what the “truth” really is? If teachers are just persuading us, a teacher had to persuade them and so on and so forth. Usually, ideas are persuaded, not facts. So, the idea had to start somewhere. Everything we’ve learned throughout our whole lives has a possibility of just being ideas thought up centuries ago. Also, the power of speech can be used to change how you think just like Gorgias does to the accusers. Their truth was that Helen was guilty and he persuades them to think differently. Under persuasion, you lose sight of what you really believe. What I’m trying to get at is that speech is a dangerous weapon. Don’t misfire.

amy.schneider85 said

at 1:06 am on Sep 5, 2011

In Plato’s piece we learned about rhetoric. Rhetoric is the art of persuasion. In the Encomium of Helen we saw an example of rhetoric. In the reading he claims that blaming incident on an women is ignorant. Now with rhetoric people use fallicies of logic. According to an informal fallacy of ignorance, saying that because it was never proven true it is not true. So when claiming that they are ignorant he is using that fallicies and that poses the question on truth if he is saying that she is innocent because it was never proven why she left then is he telling the truth or just being ignorant as well? When someone argues with rhetoric it is hard to argue with them because you don’t need truth to make a good argument. When he is defending Helen he doesn’t state any facts he just says all of the possibilities of why she left. Like if she was raped and beaten or if she was love but he never actually says why she left he just poses these questions. When it is said that she is leaving for true love or the argument that she was forced how is that true over the fact that she was indeed just an unfaithful woman. There is no truth in his argument because he doesn’t state anything. With that in mind, according to Gorgias in the reading with Socrates, rhetoric is used to persuade judges, it doesn’t say that is always the truth. He says that rhetoricians shouldn’t misuse their power. But how can you tell if they are misusing it? Like Marielle Frattaroli said in her response, if teachers are persuaded by what their teachers taught them then it isn’t fact it is opinion. And opinion isn’t truth. So when rhetoric is being used does truth actually exist? And in these rhetorical arguments do you have to state a fact in order to persuade something?

Adam Klaser said

at 6:48 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In Gorgias’ Encomium of Helen, Gorgias argues through his rhetoric that Helen was wrongfully blamed for the start of the Trojan War. He argues that the power of persuasion used Menelaus, king of Sparta, is what convinced the ignorant to believe Helen was the cause of the war. In my own opinion, I believe that the whole reason the Trojan War started was because of jealousy and the issue of personal pride. It seems to me that when Helen left Menelaus for the Trojan prince Alexander, Menelaus felt a feeling of jealousy which he had never experienced before. Due to this jealousy and his personal pride, Menelaus was not going to let Helen leave him without a fight even if it meant starting an entire war just to get back what he thought was rightfully his. Gorgias goes on to state that there is no way that Helen could be blamed for the Trojan War because the actions of the heart are not acts of sin, and it is possible that Helen’s heart loved Alexander more than Menelaus which by no means is a sin. Also, according to Gorgias, Love is a god and no lesser being can refuse it so Helen is also just in loving and wanting to be with Alexander more than Menelaus. To sum it all up, Helen was wrongfully blamed simply because Menelaus manipulated his people with the power of words and Gorgias is correct in arguing that she is innocent and only a victim of the situation at hand.
In Plato’s Gorgias, Socrates questions Gorgias what rhetoric is exactly, with Gorgias responding by saying that it is a discourse. Socrates goes on to compare rhetoric with other the arts that involve discourse, while asking Gorgias what the difference is. Gorgias explains that the difference is that rhetoric is the art of persuasion. He goes on to state that rhetoric, if used correctly, has the power to persuade people about anything even if it is false. So, in the end, rhetoric can be one of the most powerful weapons a person has if used carefully and correctly.

Travis Rodery said

at 7:06 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In Gorgias' Encomium of Helen, Gorgias of Leontini is defending Helen one hundred percent that it is not fully her fault to blame. Georgias is trying his best to take all the blame from Helen and give back her once great name. Helen, a goddeslike beauty resulting from her great parents, had men all over her and caught the eye of everyone when she walked into a room. He gives us four reasons why it is not her fault to take full responsibility for what happened. Those reasons included; passionately in love or persuaded by discourse or abducted by force or constrained by divine constraints. Gorgias lets us know that most poets put the blame on her because it is easier and they are argreeing with everyone else. Georgias explains that Helen was captured by Paris or as he calls him "Alexander" or was either sweet talked into leaving her friends and her Husband who was the king of Sparta.
In Plato's Gorgias, Socrates and Gorgias are having a long deep conversation explainging what exactly rhetoric is. We learned the art, the power, the nature, and the justice of what a rhetoric is. Power is one of the most important aspects discussed in this texts. Georgias explains to us that if you can speak you can pursuade anyone anything and this comes back to how powerful persuasion can be. He also goes on to tell Socrates on a walk that hes can pursaude anyone at anytime with very little facts even if its not true.
I read Plato's Gorgias first so I was able to understand about Helen better. People a long time ago could be pursuaded very easily so Helen took a bad name due to so many poets blaming her and there followers believing them.

Yashvir Riar said

at 8:22 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In Giorgias’ Encomium of Helen, Giorgias uses rhetoric to avert the blame placed on Helen’s actions by focusing on the reasons why she may have done what she did. Though he states that Helen’s name was regarded as ill omen by others, he persuades the reader to focus on what force may have caused her to act as she did. First he refers to Helen’s lineage and how her godlike beauty attracted all sorts of men for various reasons. Giorgias then uses an enthymeme to show that if her actions were an act of fate or by the will of God, then by blaming her, they are also blaming God. His second reason being that if she was forcefully taken from her country and her people, then the blame should be placed on the one responsible for taking her, and conversely pitying Helen. Ultimately, Giorgias demonstrates the use of rhetoric to persuade the reader of Helen’s innocence.
In the second, Giorgias refers to rhetoric as an art – the art of persuasion. However, Giorgias considers rhetoric to be the art of persuasion where little or no knowledge, on the subject which requires persuasion, is actually needed. He refers to rhetoric as a sort of weapon with the ability to persuade anyone, either friend or foe, and thus explains how it should not be abused. Socrates, on the other hand refutes this by referring to rhetoric not as an art, but calling it flattery, or an experience in producing delight and gratification. Socrates says rhetoric is not an art due to its inability to explain the nature of its own application, and he cannot call something so irrational an art.

Anisa said

at 8:33 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In the assigned reading of "Gorgias' Encomium of Helen" Gorgias wants to prove that Helen was innocent. Gorgas starts by describing what a attractive women Helen was. He explains that her beauty brought many men around to look at her and many admired her. By this speech he wishes to take away the blame that she is encountered for and to free her from all the ignorance. He refuses to let us know who and how took Helen away but provides us with great points for what she did, she either did it by fate,or manipulated by words or seduced by love. Gorgas also states that Helen was captured by Paris. He insist that if it was speech which deceived her then speech is a "powerful lord".I also agree that speech is a powerful tool into persuading something or someone into doing something. She might have been persuaded by love, but in conclusion what kind of women would not be persuaded by words or love that one man is willing to give to her? Also, Gorgas and Socrates had a thoughtful conversation about rhetoric..we learn that both have meaningful definitions about rhetoric, one calls it an experience and Gorgas states that rhetoric is an art of some sort. All comes to the conclusion that persuasion is a very powerful art of language.

Colton Michael Dale said

at 10:29 pm on Sep 5, 2011

It is clear that in both Gorgias' “Encomium of Helen” and in Plato's Gorgias that the main idea is that rhetoric, and the correct use of rhetoric, are very powerful things. Specifically, in Gorgias’ “Encomium of Helen”, Gorgias is out to defend Helen and prove that she has done nothing wrong. He does this very strongly. He presents four clear main points as to why she is completely innocent of any wrongdoing, as well as makes an underlying point, perhaps even subconsciously to the reader, that rhetoric is an extremely formidable device. At the end of reading his speech, the reader is certain that Helen has done nothing wrong at all, which was Gorgias’ purpose in writing it. He most certainly is successful in showing how rhetoric is useful and powerful. Likewise, in Plato’s Gorgias, Gorgias himself is trying to explain to Socrates that rhetoric is, in fact, an art, and is, in fact, an art of almost all things. Socrates goes on to ask many questions, and Gorgias answers some, and lets Socrates, in most cases, answer his own questions. It’s almost like Gorgias is doing this on purpose, actually, I’m quite sure that he is doing this on purpose, probably because he knows, being the rhetorician of all rhetoricians, that this will most likely allow Socrates to understand the concept more thoroughly. This piece by Plato is great and most definitely gets the point across to the reader that rhetoric is an ever-present factor in everybody’s lives, I know it did for me. I feel that after reading both of these pieces that I have a pretty good understanding of rhetoric, not only what it is, but how it is important, powerful, and ever-present in our lives. What I learned mostly is that rhetoric itself an extremely useful and powerful thing. After reading these passages, I, personally would have to define it as being the art of using language to successfully get ones idea(s) across powerfully and persuasively.

dw5149@wayne.edu said

at 11:29 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In the first text, “Encomium of Helen”, Gorgias attempts to use rhetoric to defend Helen from her accusations of causing the Trojan War. He makes a sound argument. He brings to light several reasons why she might be accused, and then follows that with a persuasive discussion as to why those reasons can’t be true. He uses logic as a tool to make his persuasions strong. I found it quite clever that he uses rhetoric to show that she could have been persuaded by the very technique that he uses starting at (8). He says that she cannot be to blame if she was persuaded since the power of words is so strong. It incorporates an explanation from the second text where he says that people can use this power for evil things, similar to how Helen could have been persuaded.
In the second text, Gorgias has a meeting of the minds with Socrates. Gorgias explains to Socrates that rhetoric is an art in discourse. Not only is it an art of discourse but it is an art of discourse that is of higher magnitude than all the other arts. He argues that a rhetorician can persuade a common man that he knows more than a master of any other art. Socrates argues that rhetoric can’t be an art, since it cannot be properly define the nature of its own applications. He states it is merely an experience or “flattery”. I have to agree with Socrates in that it cannot define itself; therefore it cannot be an art. It would be a form of deception and trickery since even though a rhetorician can persuade, they can’t back their words up with the knowledge that is required in whatever art they are persuading in. I do agree with Gorgias in the fact that it is a very powerful tool though. Having the power to persuade the masses can give one a great responsibility that can be either respected or abused.

Jared said

at 9:06 am on Sep 6, 2011

Hey dw5149...who are you?

dw5149@wayne.edu said

at 10:15 am on Sep 6, 2011

Damien. I don't know why it posted my email instead of my name

Paul Elden said

at 11:33 pm on Sep 5, 2011

Both of the texts focus on rhetoric; Plato's Gorgias being the definition, and Encomium of Helen being an example. In Plato's Gorgias, we learn that rhetoric is the art of persuasion using words, making people believe or disbelieve a piece of information through argument. Rhetoricians use specific phrases and wordplay to change the beliefs of the audience, focusing on easily disputable elements. In the text, Gorgias goes so far as to tell Socrates that rhetoric is the most important art in existence. Using rhetoric, one can bend any other to do whatever he or she desires or needs; Gorgias' specific example is in politics, the main stage for rhetoric. Gorgias continues to say that belief is stronger than knowledge, and thus rhetoric holds power over all things. His argument states that if a person, no matter how knowledgeable, can be convinced they are wrong, then their knowledge is useless, so therefore rhetoric must be more important. In the Encomium of Helen, Gorgias uses rhetoric in an attempt to define why Helen of Troy is innocent. He claims that if it were her fate to commit the crimes she was accused of, then it was the will of the gods, so she would be innocent. He also allows the idea of her being forced into the crimes by another person. In this case she would also have no choice, and should therefore be acquitted of her crimes. Gorgias' third example is his very art; the use of rhetoric could have been what caused her to commit the crimes. His belief that words are the strongest weapon of all, and that people can be motivated to anything through speech should also prove Helen's innocence.

Samey Abdulrub said

at 11:51 pm on Sep 5, 2011

In Gorgias’ Encomium to Helen, He argues that Helen shouldn’t be the one to blame and its ignorant and wrong to blame the ones that should be praised and praise the ones that should be blamed. Gorgias uses rhetoric to persuade the listeners of Helen’s innocence. He uses four main arguments to support his opinion which are fate, force, persuasion, and love. Humans cannot obstruct the will of god and the plans for her are out of her control so she can’t be blamed for that. Also he says that Helen was forced and so she shouldn’t be blamed and the abductor should be the one to blame. The power of persuasion is a powerful thing stated by Gorgias and is one of the reasons why Helen went to Troy. Lastly, he argues that love was another reason why she went to Troy and she can’t be blamed for the constraints of love.
In Plato’s Gorgias, Socrates and Gorgias discuss about what Gorgias’ does. Gorgias is a rhetorician and states that rhetoric is the art of persuasion. Socrates then asks him a series of questions concerning other subjects and how they are similar in ways of what a rhetorician is. He tells Gorgias that rhetoric is only an experience. Gorgias lets Socrates answer many of his own questions so he can understand completely. After a while Gorgias further explains that rhetoric is the art of persuasion in courts of law and other assemblies and about the just and unjust. Basically, Gorgias states to Socrates that if you can speak, you can persuade anyone even if you have little or no evidence or what you say is false. The art of persuasion is a powerful thing and this relates to how Helen was persuaded to go to Troy and cannot be blamed.

Ahmed Alshaibani said

at 7:53 am on Sep 6, 2011

In Gorgias Encomium of Helen, rhetoric is very effectively used by Gorgias to prove his point to the reader, his point being that Helen cannot be held accountable for fleeing her homeland. He explains that the reasoning behind her decision was beyond her control. He emphasized on 4 main points being that the course of action that took place was either the will of god, she was abducted by force, she was wrongfully persuaded, or the power of love. These 4 topics appeal to almost any reader and force the reader to redirect the blame away from Helen onto another source, whether it is god, an abductor, a liar, or the heart/souls attraction to another. All these topics become relatable to the reader in a way. Most readers wont dare challenge the will of god, saving Helens name that way. Rather than anger towards Helen, readers have sympathy if she was abducted. If someone is lied to, it does not put them at fault, for they didn’t know any better. Lastly, the workings of the heart are unexplainable, always seeking to be completed by another half. These persuasions help to clear Helens name. In Plato’s Gorgias, the fictional confrontation between Socrates and Gorgias leads off with Socrates seeking the definition of what the art of the rhetorician was. After being told that rhetoric was the art of appealing to discourse and persuasion, Socrates argues that many other arts do the same. But in responding, Gorgias uses his rhetorical skills to prove the significance of his art and methods just as how he used his skill to clear Helen of Troy’s name

mike said

at 8:58 am on Sep 6, 2011

In both pieces, the power of rhetoric is the main subject. In Gorgias' Encomium of Helen, Gorgias is defending Helen. He speaks of rhetoric and persuasion. He states that it is not the one who has been persuaded who is at fault and that this party should be seen as the victim while the party doing the persuading is the guilty one and should be to blame for any injustice that was a result of the persuasion. In Gorgias defense, he used 4 points to convey his message: Love, fate, force, and persuasion. He also states that she was deceived with powerful speech which was undeniable by anything human.
In Plato’s Gorgias, Gorgias and Socrates discuss rhetoric and its many uses in almost every aspect of life. Gorgias views rhetoric as an art and Socrates views rhetoric as a form of flattery. It is also discussed that rhetoric, being a powerful form of persuasion, requires little to no knowledge of the subject.

Anonymous said

at 10:39 am on Sep 6, 2011

In the two sections I found some things to be very interesting. Gorgias's Encomium to Helen and Plato's Gorgias were a different type of literature to read and at first I didn’t understand. In Gorgias Encomium to Helen, Helen is a woman who’s been blamed for causing the war. I was kind of confused on why she’d be charged and I know that Gorgias wanted to make an argument to prove her innocence. Although in Plato’s Gorgias he ends up showing people that he can’t be trusted by anyone and that he only knows how to pursue others into believing what he says. The term rhetoric at first stunned me because I’ve never really used that term before. So I looked it up it up to understand the true meaning. The term is basically used to communicate effectively and persuasively, so this shows that someone is trying to prove their point in a creative way.

Derek Blanton said

at 10:50 am on Sep 6, 2011

In the excerpts from Encomium to Helen, Gorgias very effectively uses excellent Rhetorical skills to persuade the reader that Helen was not at fault in the scenario, but rather those that persuaded her in the first place. He further uses four(4) main points to defend his position. These main points are fate, force, persuasion, and love. By using these points as a basis for his argument, he is able to convince, or rather redirect the attention and blame from Helen herself onto other sources.
In Plato's Gorgias, Socrates confronts Gorgias about rhetoric and what the art of the rhetorician truly was. Gorgias brilliantly uses his rhetorical skills to prove to Socrates that rhetoric is an art rather than a form of flattery and that it is quite different from other "art forms" that use the same tactics.

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